tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2281443754502891373.post8255051196654098318..comments2023-09-16T09:09:18.691-04:00Comments on Kittywampus - now at kittywampus.wordpress.com: More on Colorado's ZygotemaniaSungoldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02153155221248240952noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2281443754502891373.post-69431568297708091432008-10-18T04:33:00.000-04:002008-10-18T04:33:00.000-04:00Exactly when and how consciousness enters is, I th...Exactly when and how consciousness enters is, I think, life's profoundest riddle (as hard as the Big Bang). Linking psychic and physical processes is Maya's most cunning sleight of hand. But consider this: the same BBC enters my extremely complicated radio as enters my very simple crystal set.John Pinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11601046209434193058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2281443754502891373.post-14440778963196980562008-10-17T20:47:00.000-04:002008-10-17T20:47:00.000-04:00John, I think you and I can agree that a zygote do...John, I think you and I can agree that a zygote does not have consciousness. An eight-celled human does not have consciousness.<BR/><BR/>Nor is the dependence of even the most dependent spouse equivalent to that of an embryo on the woman carrying it.Sungoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02153155221248240952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2281443754502891373.post-82056633151001425492008-10-17T18:38:00.000-04:002008-10-17T18:38:00.000-04:00We have protection societies for dogs, cats, horse...We have protection societies for dogs, cats, horses and foxes but none for rats, hornets or fleas (that I know of).<BR/><BR/>Humans used to enjoy immunity from this sort of subjectivity: abortion was not an option.<BR/><BR/>I remember my own consciousness being even more intense and vivid as a child than now. That's why I can't believe in the fade-in theory. Project consciousness back into the womb and I don't see it getting fainter, just less cluttered.<BR/><BR/>We're four-dimensional creatures stretching through time and the foetus is one end of it.<BR/><BR/>Individuality is a centre of awareness and a focus of will: dependence doesn't imply ownership by the mother any more than a husband should be deemed owner of his wife.<BR/><BR/>The husband has the right to care for his wife but not to kill her. Why can't an inchoate human enjoy the same rights to care from her mother?<BR/><BR/>Foeticide doesn't square with the Culture of Care that we want to establish. Loving care can't be turned on and off when it's convenient using a toggle switch.<BR/><BR/>When I was a student I argued pro-abortion. I've changed my mind.John Pinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11601046209434193058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2281443754502891373.post-38569618127608624792008-10-17T15:30:00.000-04:002008-10-17T15:30:00.000-04:00John, we've been 'round the block a few times on t...John, we've been 'round the block a few times on these issues already, so I'll just say that I take a developmental perspective: A zygote is so far from being *autonomous* life that I see no reason for the state to protect. As it develops, it becomes appropriate for the state to gradually raise the bar. I don't think a woman should be able to *arbitrarily* abort a fetus past the point when it's viable outside the womb.<BR/><BR/>However, I mostly want to address your question about cuteness. I agree that our ethics should not be grounded in whether a life form is "cute." Still, I wonder: Are we evolutionarily programmed to respond protectively to cuteness? Because that definitely works to the advantage of babies, those squalling, demanding creatures! I don't have the answer to this, just think it's an intriguing question.Sungoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02153155221248240952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2281443754502891373.post-12726177638112083572008-10-15T10:09:00.000-04:002008-10-15T10:09:00.000-04:00Let's face it: the prevailing question in deciding...Let's face it: the prevailing question in deciding whether a baby should be aborted is currently "Is it cute or not?" A hydatidiform mole is definitely not cute. Therefore it should be aborted. <BR/><BR/>Whether or not the embryo or foetus has its own consciousness or can experience pain is almost exactly the same problem as the problem of creation itself: where did it come from? How come it wasn't there and now it's there? Who did it and how did it happen? Who can take credit for the whole operation? Exactly WHEN did it happen? When did not-being turn into being?<BR/><BR/>Once we realise that our real criterion is cuteness, we can see what a dangerous question we are dealing with. Who is to decide whether that baby is cute enough to go on living? Is the mother, the empress of life, the proper arbiter? Most people are saying yes to that. Yet if a mother kills her baby after it has come out, that is murder. <BR/><BR/>Who can believe that a baby's consciousness is switched on just because it has slipped out of its mother? Most people, although they don't articulate it, think a baby's consciousness flies in on a dimmer switch. <BR/><BR/>Is the strength of consciousness determined by the complexity of its content? Meditators would say no to that.<BR/><BR/>There are some babies that nobody except the mother thinks are cute. There are some babies which everyone except the mother thinks are cute. There are some babies that nobody thinks are cute. <BR/><BR/>The cuteness test puts everyone in danger.John Pinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11601046209434193058noreply@blogger.com